From: slider@anashram.com

all the rest of the stuff was borrowed.

### - lol here we go again? haha :)))

'proof' please! any kinda proof will do!

even just one thing that is 'actual' proof instead of merely a bunch of disgruntled peeps hateful opinion?

even his 'death' isn't clear-cut??

all anyone knows for sure is that they all... disappeared??

nope, cc apparently wanted to end everything in a cloud of total mystery,
and succeeded!

the end result is that no one 'actually' KNOWS shit lol :)

now which 'version' of the truth do ya want; the foxnews-version? the popular-version? cc's-version? there's no fact-checked version!

jeremy's version??? (defo NOT anything but his! LOL that dude is 180-degrees-out on virtually everything! the absolute reverse of
'anything' he suggests being far more likely! ahaha...)

have personally yet to see even one 'shred' of proof either way?

when it comes to some of his 'dreaming-shit', however, 'some' of it seems
to be correct? and this at (and from) a time when he was literally the
only one even saying/suggesting such things??

if he 'stole' any of it where the fuck did he steal it from???

i.e., there is no one before cc who mentions anything even remotely
resembling WILDing!

he calls it summat else is all; he called it dreaming awake, plus that of journeying through some kinda dark-void/sea of awareness (ringin' any
bells?) and had thus redefined dreaming 50-years in-advance of every other fucker!

and that's a bit of a mystery, see?

a genuine mystery as opposed to the mere 'speculation' of everyone's
totally uninformed: 'opinion' lol :)))

haha i quite like it :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

you are still suffering from the "presold" state of believing.
Many were taken because Castaneda was anthropology student
working towards a PhD. He was published therefore it had to
be real. No it doesn't. You were presold because the Regents
of the University of California gave him some creditability.
The first stage to brain washing is to be presold. Without being
presold you would have never given this guy a second thought.
At best it would have been trick Steven King writing for new age
dummies.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

Others like Ken Eagle Feather, Merilyn Tunneshende, etc. are also do not

not so fast commandante, Tunneshende might have the most valid points
of anyone. there's a good chance she too studied with the guy that
CC got knowledge from. good chance she was la gorda too. But i wouldn't
bet on it. all the rest of the stuff was borrowed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

you are still suffering from the "presold" state of believing.
Many were taken because Castaneda was anthropology student
working towards a PhD. He was published therefore it had to
be real. No it doesn't. You were presold because the Regents
of the University of California gave him some creditability.
The first stage to brain washing is to be presold. Without being
presold you would have never given this guy a second thought.
At best it would have been trick Steven King writing for new age
dummies.

### - that's actually very offensive Chris? am not 'suffering' at all +
you must be talkin' about yourself or someone else you know, as i reported
how i personally bumped into his work and it had nada to do with academia
or knowing anything about him beforehand :)

i.e., it was on one of my 'excursions' into an altered state (something
that occasionally occurred after taking acid a few times; kinda flashbacks
that terrified me at first but which i became used to, and even eventually learned to trigger via sudden alterations to any established routine...)
and his first book was something i found and brought back with me onetime
from that experience + that was all the info i had on him for years...

look, we live in a make-believe world ok? everything people 'believe' they
made up themselves and/or unquestioningly inherited from an earlier
generation; their whole lives are built entirely on beliefs! they
start-out with some one belief or another and act on everything
exclusively from that pov thus proving to themselves over & over that
their belief(s) are correct, anything else that doesn't fit is rejected
out of hand...

no surprise then that they're so easily fooled by fake news that's
presented in a manner that suggests it's correct? it all adds-up so it
'must' be real! (yeah riiiight)

e.g., NO ONE independent or outside of his crew actually witnessed either
his dying nor his burial, the public weren't even informed for 'how-long'
after he'd supposedly died?? (weeks or something! lol) but you all
'believed' it why?

because you 'wanna' believe it hah!

there's no proof of it: nada! just the word alone of... 'others' who were directly involved and who all subsequently disappeared themselves??

careless heh, very careless!

there's not even ONE single shred of evidence that isn't completely circumstantial or second-hand!

but you's would prolly still lynch 'anyone' who dares suggests anything
now to the contrary??

yeah, so NOW there's summat wrong with THEM if they don't believe it too??
they must be suffering?

truth is though, you've pre-sold yourself into believing his death merely because it adds-up and it's convenient lol...

(lol just think of how horribly 'inconvenient' it would be if proof to the contrary emerged huh)

you'd prolly crap yourselves haha :)))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - that's actually very offensive Chris? am not 'suffering' at all +

oh now you're offended are you? you're not offended. touchy touchy
are we ? ok ok i'll be careful with your fragile egg shell head.

you must be talkin' about yourself or someone else you know, as i reported how i personally bumped into his work and it had nada to do with academia
or knowing anything about him beforehand :)

Yeah that was 'then' and of course this is many years later.
we know a fuck boat load more now than we did in 1968.

i.e., it was on one of my 'excursions' into an altered state (something
that occasionally occurred after taking acid a few times; kinda flashbacks that terrified me at first but which i became used to, and even eventually learned to trigger via sudden alterations to any established routine...)
and his first book was something i found and brought back with me onetime
from that experience + that was all the info i had on him for years...

ok nothing wrong with that. I guess you didn't read any Leary or Rich Albert?

look, we live in a make-believe world ok? everything people 'believe' they made up themselves and/or unquestioningly inherited from an earlier generation; their whole lives are built entirely on beliefs! they
start-out with some one belief or another and act on everything
exclusively from that pov thus proving to themselves over & over that
their belief(s) are correct, anything else that doesn't fit is rejected
out of hand...

Yes (i'm having fun with you now) "ain't it hard WHEN they discover
it wasn't where it was at"?

no surprise then that they're so easily fooled by fake news that's
presented in a manner that suggests it's correct? it all adds-up so it
'must' be real! (yeah riiiight)

see you already get it. Nothing 'must' be anything. It is what it is.

e.g., NO ONE independent or outside of his crew actually witnessed either
his dying nor his burial, the public weren't even informed for 'how-long' after he'd supposedly died?? (weeks or something! lol) but you all
'believed' it why?

Wrong, plenty of people can verify the little twerp croaked. What you
don't believe a death certificate? How about a small bucket of ashes?

because you 'wanna' believe it hah!

not so much that i wanna believe, so he didn't die and then he gave away
all of his assets and is left with vitually nuttin? No way Jose.

there's no proof of it: nada! just the word alone of... 'others' who were directly involved and who all subsequently disappeared themselves??

you fail to see the obvious, i can't help you then. all i can do is make
fun of you. You'll come to someday, it's ok, i can wait.

careless heh, very careless!

there's not even ONE single shred of evidence that isn't completely circumstantial or second-hand!

There's plenty of evidence. Just read. Nothing special required to
comprehend is there? (chris gives slider giant reading glasses) :)

but you's would prolly still lynch 'anyone' who dares suggests anything
now to the contrary??

Nah, i'm not lynching no one. You can believe or anyone else for that
matter can believe forever, no sweat off my huevos here boss.

yeah, so NOW there's summat wrong with THEM if they don't believe it too?? they must be suffering?

you're a little touchy with that word suffering aren't you? Maybe i should substitute that phrase especially for you.

truth is though, you've pre-sold yourself into believing his death merely because it adds-up and it's convenient lol...

Nice try there trying to do the "turn the tables" maneuver. No sale here.

(lol just think of how horribly 'inconvenient' it would be if proof to the contrary emerged huh)

I'm all for it, bring it on. Show me the evidence to the contrary.
Dude it's 22 years later, how long are you going to keep this up?

you'd prolly crap yourselves haha :)))

It would be fine. I have new underwear available. lol!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

not nice is it? so don't do it then, and neither will i :)

hey just don't call in a drone attract at my house ok?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

you know slider it doesn't matter what cc did or didn't do.
you should continue your work as your own work and not
depend on anything cc said or might have said. Your journey
is your own. You might be one guy in a million here,
who knows?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - that's actually very offensive Chris? am not 'suffering' at all +

oh now you're offended are you? you're not offended. touchy touchy
are we ? ok ok i'll be careful with your fragile egg shell head.

### - more surprised than actually offended heh; you suddenly behaving
like jeremy out of the blue and pointing that shit at moi is actually
fairly obnoxious lol, i.e., disagree with jeremy on anything and suddenly
he switches to there must be summat 'wrong' with you personally? oh you
must be 'suffering' etc; it's a cheap shot and a bit nasty too, but i
guess you deemed i must have deserved it then huh...

you must be talkin' about yourself or someone else you know, as i
reported
how i personally bumped into his work and it had nada to do with
academia
or knowing anything about him beforehand :)

Yeah that was 'then' and of course this is many years later.
we know a fuck boat load more now than we did in 1968.

### - and so if'n someone doesn't agree' with you on something then there
must be something wrong with them then eh? you assume too much...

i.e., it was on one of my 'excursions' into an altered state (something
that occasionally occurred after taking acid a few times; kinda
flashbacks
that terrified me at first but which i became used to, and even
eventually
learned to trigger via sudden alterations to any established routine...)
and his first book was something i found and brought back with me
onetime
from that experience + that was all the info i had on him for years...

ok nothing wrong with that. I guess you didn't read any Leary or Rich Albert?

### - don't remember anything from them about cc + there's no obvious connection at the time or for years later until reading the history of the whole movement and the 'hippy-scattering' that had different peeps going
in different directions lookin' for the 'truth' etc; alpert went to india, others went to south america to vist shamans (including william burroughs
who studied with a shaman & discovered a substance called Yage) + didn't
read about leary's history personally for years...

look, we live in a make-believe world ok? everything people 'believe'
they
made up themselves and/or unquestioningly inherited from an earlier
generation; their whole lives are built entirely on beliefs! they
start-out with some one belief or another and act on everything
exclusively from that pov thus proving to themselves over & over that
their belief(s) are correct, anything else that doesn't fit is rejected
out of hand...

Yes (i'm having fun with you now) "ain't it hard WHEN they discover
it wasn't where it was at"?

### - lol most of 'em never do because they's too busy believin' shit
instead of actually checking shit out ;)

no surprise then that they're so easily fooled by fake news that's
presented in a manner that suggests it's correct? it all adds-up so it
'must' be real! (yeah riiiight)

see you already get it. Nothing 'must' be anything. It is what it is.

### - you don't know what it is, you merely assume you know because that's
what you... heard

everyone says whatever, so it 'must' be right??

nah, that was never good enough for moi haha; popular opinion is always,
by default, mostly in error; they used to believe the sun orbited the
earth for christsakes lol :)

e.g., NO ONE independent or outside of his crew actually witnessed
either
his dying nor his burial, the public weren't even informed for
'how-long'
after he'd supposedly died?? (weeks or something! lol) but you all
'believed' it why?

Wrong, plenty of people can verify the little twerp croaked. What you
don't believe a death certificate? How about a small bucket of ashes?

### - been over this before... the certificate was written by a known + personal md-friend of his (the source of that particular info came from
jeremy btw) the funeral service itself was completely private and wasn't attended by any outsiders, plus also occurred before anyone had even heard
he was dead??

you want ashes? ashes are cheap! burn summat you gots ashes already! :)

because you 'wanna' believe it hah!

not so much that i wanna believe, so he didn't die and then he gave away
all of his assets and is left with vitually nuttin? No way Jose.

### - smile, you don't think too well... like wasn't there a story of
carol stashing 10-grand (or whatever) away for a rainy day and coming back
to it 10 years later? so what makes ya think old moneybags himself
wouldn't have covered himself financially in some way too knowing
in-advance he/they was all gonna piss off? he was a millionaire several
times over! don't tell me he didn't have a stash in south america
someplace too... you can do 'anything' with his kinda money lol :)))

there's no proof of it: nada! just the word alone of... 'others' who
were
directly involved and who all subsequently disappeared themselves??

you fail to see the obvious, i can't help you then. all i can do is
make
fun of you. You'll come to someday, it's ok, i can wait.

### - i merely 'fail to agree' with what 'appears' to be the obvious heh;
the bit everyone swallowed so easily lol (the crowd yelled: it all makes
sense! it all adds up! riiiight....)

smile, you never even questioned it??

careless heh, very careless!

there's not even ONE single shred of evidence that isn't completely
circumstantial or second-hand!

There's plenty of evidence. Just read. Nothing special required to comprehend is there? (chris gives slider giant reading glasses) :)

### - actually there isn't; 'hearsay' isn't evidence?

and you, and/or even anyone you know, doesn't know anything 'directly'
either!

it's ALL hearsay! there's no 'actual' evidence at all :)

but you's would prolly still lynch 'anyone' who dares suggests anything
now to the contrary??

Nah, i'm not lynching no one. You can believe or anyone else for that
matter can believe forever, no sweat off my huevos here boss.

### - maybe not lynching exactly, but certainly throwing bricks? (must be summat wrong with you mate! etc etc; jeremy's fav line of attack!)

but you're not attacking or sayin' anything horrible huh...

yeah, so NOW there's summat wrong with THEM if they don't believe it
too??
they must be suffering?

you're a little touchy with that word suffering aren't you? Maybe i
should
substitute that phrase especially for you.

### - implying there's maybe something mentally wrong with me (or anyone
come to that) is always gonna be offensive Chris; that's no way to debate
ok? i.e., debate ends when the insults start flyin' (which is actually why jeremyv always applied that particular tack: the last thing he wanted was debate lol coz he might lose!)

truth is though, you've pre-sold yourself into believing his death
merely
because it adds-up and it's convenient lol...

Nice try there trying to do the "turn the tables" maneuver. No sale
here.

### - you refuse to re-examine some pretty fuckin' crappy evidence, sooo
thin you can see through it?

all you 'actually' have as 'evidence' is an unverified death-cert written
by his close doctor-friend (not even an independent MD right?) AND the
word of a bunch of acknowledged liars?? (at least they were all liars
according to you, only NOW they's tellin' the truth?? riiiiight...)

and that 'without' those only TWO bits of shaky evidence you ain't got
shit to prove nada to no one!

so it's all just people's beliefs then innit! (you wanna trust 'beliefs'
then go ahead lol)

(lol just think of how horribly 'inconvenient' it would be if proof to
the
contrary emerged huh)

I'm all for it, bring it on. Show me the evidence to the contrary.
Dude it's 22 years later, how long are you going to keep this up?

### - i honestly wish i could?

but there ISN'T any EVIDENCE whatsoever! LOL

a fake death-cert + the word of a bunch of liars??

no one even checked it out!?

riiiight :)))

you'd prolly crap yourselves haha :)))

It would be fine. I have new underwear available. lol!

### - ok, that was perhaps a bit uncalled for haha, but is what kinda
happens when ya goes down the road of insulting peeps instead of sticking
to reason to make one's points?

not nice is it? so don't do it then, and neither will i :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

you know slider it doesn't matter what cc did or didn't do.
you should continue your work as your own work and not
depend on anything cc said or might have said. Your journey
is your own. You might be one guy in a million here,
who knows?

### - smile, it's ok i hear ya; you're not the enemy + rest assured that
nada i do (or will continue to do) is dependent on cc, or on
anything/anyone else come to that heh; i.e., am out here totally on my own
with this shit! (hence all the jokes about kings being dethroned etc etc;
this really 'is' all cutting-edge stuff; there's not even any
competition...)

there's just some very striking similarities is all lol; in that the
'only' other person, besides cc, to write about WILDs in ANY shape or
form: was laberge! and he sidelined the whole fuckin' deal in-favour of
dilds!? (which was actually quite a blunder on his part heh...)

i.e., even simple logic suggests, that if cc didn't have anyone to 'steal'
that info from, then he must have known something about it... himself?

and because 'some' of it's downright accurate!

now maybe you (and others previously involved too) have no real wish to
'make' such comparisons, makes ya feel uncomfortable or whatever when it's
all supposed to be a dun-deal, but i still have that obligation to find
things out about it from any available source! to probe & explore it to
the best of my ability! and if that means rakin' up some old shit in the process because that's the only source, then so be it :)

e.g., do ya know just how 'long' ago he wrote this??

"What we can do from inner silence is very similar to what is done in
dreaming when one is asleep. However, when journeying through the dark sea
of awareness, there is no interruption of any sort caused by going to
sleep, nor is there any attempt whatsoever at controlling one's attention
while having a dream. The journey through the dark sea of awareness
entails an immediate response. There is an overpowering sensation of the
here and now. Some idiotic sorcerers gave the name dreaming-awake to the
act of reaching the dark sea of awareness directly, making the term
dreaming even more ridiculous."

i mean, if that's NOT WILDing then i'll eat my hat :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

not nice is it? so don't do it then, and neither will i :)

hey just don't call in a drone attract at my house ok?

### - haha relax, my drone shot down your drone, that's all that happened
;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

"What we can do from inner silence is very similar to what is done in dreaming when one is asleep. However, when journeying through the dark sea
of awareness, there is no interruption of any sort caused by going to
sleep, nor is there any attempt whatsoever at controlling one's attention while having a dream. The journey through the dark sea of awareness
entails an immediate response. There is an overpowering sensation of the
here and now. Some idiotic sorcerers gave the name dreaming-awake to the
act of reaching the dark sea of awareness directly, making the term
dreaming even more ridiculous."

i mean, if that's NOT WILDing then i'll eat my hat :)

well the obvious answer is somewhere between 1993 and 1998.
Could be from The Art of Dreaming. Could have another book he did
after that. Maybe some hot shot on here will remember. We'll have some
anal retentive guy come up with your reference. Lord Donovan come in ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - had to really kinda think about this one heh...

but no, can't accept that, not unless being fairly bright and getting a
good education constitutes being 1 in a million??

of course it's not about you, it's about what you are showing.
most of the people you meet on the internet are worthless.
they are just pulling pud here and want you to worship their
uniqueness. Haven't found anyone worth getting exciting about.
But you know it could happen. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

"What we can do from inner silence is very similar to what is done in

dreaming when one is asleep. However, when journeying through the dark
sea
of awareness, there is no interruption of any sort caused by going to
sleep, nor is there any attempt whatsoever at controlling one's
attention
while having a dream. The journey through the dark sea of awareness
entails an immediate response. There is an overpowering sensation of the
here and now. Some idiotic sorcerers gave the name dreaming-awake to the
act of reaching the dark sea of awareness directly, making the term
dreaming even more ridiculous."

i mean, if that's NOT WILDing then i'll eat my hat

well the obvious answer is somewhere between 1993 and 1998.
Could be from The Art of Dreaming. Could have another book he did
after that.

### - what? no one wants to be labeled as anal retentive? haha :)))

1998 for that particular quote (active side of infinity) but earlier
mentions go right back to 1974 & 81, whereas laberge published his first
book on dilds in 85...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

You might be one guy in a million here,
who knows?

### - had to really kinda think about this one heh...

but no, can't accept that, not unless being fairly bright and getting a
good education constitutes being 1 in a million??

nah, that's not it, there's really nada special about moi beyond the
'nurture' i was lucky enough to get in terms of that education + that of meeting the kinda peeps that nudged me in a certain direction, something
that could have happened to anyone if only because it happened to me!

i blame the education system myself; a 'work' related education is no
education at all? it might fit you for work but not with a deeper
appreciation for life & living; work isn't what life is all about; far
from it! that you're actually better-off being piss-poor & starving than
being indoctrinated into becoming an efficient production-line fucking
robot, is a tragedy??

that without an emphasis upon literature & art (iow: the humanities) as a guiding force in someone's life, then you're basically just an empty
shell! you'll be a great + utterly reliable worker but not much of a human being??

fuck that! to have science 'over' art is insanity!

we need both but there'll never 'be' any sanity until that order is
reversed!

we're NOT robots! we're capable of sooo much only it's all suppressed?!

that IS madness! if not the definition of it!

sad truth is; ya might even have to be one in a million to fall through
that net?

thus as far as am concerned: if i can do it then anyone can! you don't
even have to be that smart!

meaning: just 'average' intelligence is actually plenty given the right
kind(s) of education...

i.e., you don't need to 'be' a genius to touch upon genius levels that
will turn you into one!

and that's the point really: there's genius in us all...

all it needs is a chance to... emerge/come out :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

- had to really kinda think about this one heh...

but no, can't accept that, not unless being fairly bright and getting a
good education constitutes being 1 in a million??

of course it's not about you, it's about what you are showing.
most of the people you meet on the internet are worthless.
they are just pulling pud here and want you to worship their
uniqueness. Haven't found anyone worth getting exciting about.
But you know it could happen. :)

### - really don't see people being like that? and view them more as
having been stifled in one way or another, deliberately denied from being/attaining their best; the few that then manage to shine some in some standard + accepted way (youtubers for example; actually making a good
living outta posting popular shit on the internet lol) just being very
average peeps who've found a little niche for themselves in a fucking
crazy world that doesn't make any fuckin' sense whatsoever besides the
money (and popularity) they then earn/get?

it's not enough! i mean... it's not a bad 'get-by' mode, but could hardly
be called living life to the full in the full awareness & joy of doing
so?? (far from it actually...)

a humanity on its... knees!

lol it's just completely unacceptable! :)))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)