[continued from previous message]

have assets and so on and don't want them destroyed or taken and
redistributed. I used to be like you, a liberal/leftie/anarchist, but
it simply doesn't work at large scales. It's a pipe dream

You sound cynical but this really is a west/east clash, except it's
not the Russkies we should be concerned about.

### - agreed, the ruskies actually just wanna be left alone to adopt a
neutral position, and because, again, it's us who're pressuring them
rather than the other way around...

The Russians are impoverished even by ChiCom standards. You and I
would be long dead if we lived in Russia:

"Men in Russia have an average life expectancy of just 60 years. Life
expectancy for Russian men is well below that of western European
countries like Germany, where men have an average life span of 77
years, according to World Health Organization figures."

edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/russia.health

### - the 'problem' the west has with russia is only that of their being a >competing ideology, ditto china & islam... i.e., they wont be converted to >'our' way of doing things and insist on having their own ways of doing >things, and view us in the west as being fundamentally corrupt &
corrupting to their own aims & goals...

Nope Russia has a problem with the US because the US along with Ronald
Reagan destroyed their entire system by making it unsustainable. Old
KGB types like Putin will never ever forgive the US for that. Russia,
under Putin and his type, will always be a blood enemy of the US for
its defeat and destruction of communism in the country which first
enacted that system.

Most Russians no longer have that ideology and they dress in jeans and
T's and sneakers and listen to western music and so on just like us.
It's Putin and his lack of forgiveness which drives the nation however
and makes them our enemy.

Of course they think we are corrupt. We won! Winners are grinners.
Fuck them lol.

perforce burning all the literature to the contrary comes next, and >>>>>>> then
where will we be??

What? Hey, I'm staying here so far in the hope that we can engage in >>>>>> normal discourse where one side listens to the other and agrees or >>>>>> disagrees based on evidence.

You too?

### - yes, of course, and am just saying/continuing (rather cynically >>>>> i
suppose) that what usually comes next is then the destruction of
anything
(i.e., any literature) that doesn't support the right-wing ethos...
that
according to trumpy 'everyone' on the left is now a communist
extremist
who wants to destroy their country etc etc bs... an example of this
being
trumpy's recent attempt at the re-writing of black history as part of >>>>> his
'maga' campaign, which he says is a left-wing plot to undermine
american
history and greatness etc...

No, that's what's happening in China. There's a lot of secrecy and so >>>> on in the West but nothing compared to the ChiComs.

### - make no mistake; trumpy is far-right! and part of his agenda is
thus
to destroy the left wing altogether by hook or by crook! you can see
this
in everything he does...

Agreed.

### - so then it's really only the same old problem all along of the
'owners' having to fight-off the organised workers who're demanding better >conditions and fairer pay etc etc; the sheriff of nottingham wants to
raise the taxes and robin hood is doing things in the background to
subvert that aim by stealing from the rich to give back to the poor kinda >thing (sounds simplistic, but that's what it's basically been about all >along, and still is all about, these days the sheriff's got computers now
is all...)

Trump sounds like Adolf. Both found enemies in the left (for Hitler,
it was the bolsheviks) and both stirred the pot with racial hatred -
for Hitler, the Jews, for Trump, the blacks and hispanics (those
"shithole" coutries as he called them in his inimitable style).

### - that's exactly what am talking about... both of them had/have
designs on world domination and that's what ultimately causes all the
trouble and wars...

Trump isn't concerned with global dominion. More concerned with
withdrawing the US from the world.

### - you said it yourself when you referred to him as "the leader of the >free world"?

I was just parroting what POTUS is known for in the West. And we are
free - free to topple unpopular governments for instance, which has
happened in your country, mine, Germany, France and soon in the US.
Try that shit in Russia or China or North Korea and see what
happens...

Or in Belorussia...

rightly or wrongly that's how they see themselves anyway... the 'problem' >being that democracy so-called is actually a system of slavery and not >freedom at all? ("slave camps under the flag of freedom" according to
albert camus for example) it being impossible to 'enforce' freedom upon >people from without anyway, without necessarily sowing the seeds of yet >another future rebellion later on?

Are you serious? I've never been hamstringed by my government and I
smoke dope, made money, spend it where and on what I like, used to
have loud parties and make a nuisance of myself, I was FREE and only
our system permits that. As I said, try all that in China or Russia
and see what happens.

'extremism' is thus the real enemy in that sense! and is to be avoided
at
all costs! draw back from that some though and that's precisely where
dialogue & negotiation begins: the only thing that can possibly save the >>> world!

Agreed.

### - am glad you agree, because the 'left' is where all the intelligence
is and/or ultimately derives from; art, literature, poetry, the deep
thinkers and innovators etc etc, all coming expressly from the left from >people who know (who have some idea then) what 'freedom' means because
they come from a oppressed class where they feel anything 'but' free?

I don't agree with that at all. The concept of left/communism/bolshevism/communalism/collective bargaining etc etc
has only been around for a bit over a century but we came down from
the trees a million years ago and we have had civilisation for at
least 10K years now - where was all the intelligence in Greece and in
Rome and in Egypt 5K years ago, the intelligence which wrote the Eddas
and the Mahabarata, the Bhavagadgita, the early scriptures etc etc -
there was no left wing then, civlisation was republics, empires,
emperors, kings, war leaders and the like. Yet there was
intelligence, art, poetry, innovation a plenty.

You need to free up your thinking. I think all the time and if I'm
wrong about something, then I change my opinion. It's healthy to be
willing to change and admit you are wrong from time to time.

back in the dark ages lol :)))

Nothing to do with this traitor. Can't see the connection.

### - my fault perhaps for jumping to blaming trumpy by comparing him >>>>> to
stalin and what stalin then did to do everything he could to 'remain' >>>>> in
power... and because this is what the right-wing always does to
eliminate
the competition by demonising them... that they prolly knew about this >>>>> nano-dude all along but now's a good time to make an example of him as >>>>> part of the anti-chinese build-up: we've caught one! (a traitor) and >>>>> there'll be more to follow! now who's next??

that there are very clear parallels between what stalin did to remain >>>>> in
power and what thumpy's now doing to remain in power, this
scientist-dude
being held-up as a graphic example of what's going on right under our >>>>> moses and that has to be eliminated in order to make america great
again
etc etc...

i mean, i dunno who this scientist dude really is and could actually >>>>> care
less, it just seems very timely with the current anti-chinese climate >>>>> he's
trying to stir up is all, everyone systematically being forced to
assert
their political intentions when scientists are supposed to be
objectively
A-political... in which case i don't trust it! (nano-dude may or may >>>>> not
actually be a traitor, but once you start using terms 'like' traitor >>>>> it's
a slippery-slope down back into the dark ages again... and that's why >>>>> i
don't trust it...)

China has one big achilles heel. It is decades behind the US in
design and manufacture of very sophisticated silicon chiips and they
depend on imports from the US, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan who are
all more successful in this area.

Now the US is starting to strangle the ChiCom ability to purchase
these chips. That is a very big weakness indeed.

### - agreed, but they're catching up real fast! and that's a big-big
problem for the west...

Not in chips. They don't even have decent foundries. They are
decades behind and war is close.

### - oh they're modern enough to lob quite a few fancy nukes in our >direction should the need ever arise, china isn't some tin-pot wannabe >nuclear nation like north korea or iran ya know? i mean, long gone are the >days when we british could just bombard them with impunity into submission
from the sea hah! if we tried that shit today there'd be a very hefty
price to pay in terms of retaliation, just one well-aimed missile with >multiple warheads would flatten the uk forever!

Even the NK can make nukes, they have been around since 1945. That
doesn't take modern chip technology at all even in ICBM's because
inertial guided missiles have been around for a long time before
modern chip foundries and assoc tech. The Chinese are nowhere near
the Yanks or the Taiwanese or the Japs or South Koreans in chip tech,
they are decades behind. This is why the US export controls are
crippling Huawai.

And I don't think the Chicoms have MIRV technology - perhaps it's only
one warhead per rocket.

i mean, how many 'trillions' of american debt does china currently hold
for example? lol

Not a problem for the Yanks who can just print more money and degrade
the value of those holdings.

### - true... but would also devalue the dollar for themselves in the
process too, to the point that $1000 prolly wouldn't even buy ya a single >loaf of bread! deflation! (iow: you can only go so far with that shit
before your own economy collapses no?)

No that's not how it works. By devaluing the $ exports increase and
wealth increases. This counteracts any tendency towards inflation. A purposeful increase in money supply can put China down but will not be
seen by the markets to be overly damaging to the US economy. It is a
big weapon which has not yet been wielded by the Yanks but has in fact
been used by China.

in another 30 or 50 years they'll just call in the debt and own america!

The ChiCOms don't have the luxury of time.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/china-forces-on-high-alert-after-u-s-warship-sails-near-taiwan

### - and thus they're preparing for an assault upon them by claiming
these important + strategic waterways in a counter-attempt to even the
score that 'we' have un-evened by encroaching upon them!

Nope, the Chinese are bullies who started the pandemic and they need
to be taken down a few sizes. In the coming war the US and its allies
will prevail. Nukes will not be used for the obvious reason (that the
Chinese nation will become a radioactive wasteland for the next 100000
years). China will sue for peace but there is a danger that they will
not accept the peace conditions like Germany after WW1 and futher
conflagration will take place down track.

But there will be war.

thus war with them is inevitable unless the west can change its world
domination agenda to something else and, perhaps, persuade china to do
something similar? (why can't we all just get along?? hah!)

else they're quite content to just keep growing and growing while
western
economies shrink away, they don't 'need' to start a war except in
defense
of their sovereign rights!

They have already started the war. Soon, the US will finish it.

### - i don't agree that they started it, any more than they started a war >with the british that time, rather it's completely the other way around as
we (the west) encroach upon them by sending warships to sail past them? >they've seen that shit before lol only this time they're better prepared
to defend themselves! we're actively provoking them! and have, for
example, already initiated a trade war with them! (trade wars have always >been a prelude to war no? well we've started it then no?)

The two circumstances are totally different. Now the Chinese are
trying to close or control shipping lanes which service half the
world. The US did that to Japan and WW2 in the Pacific ensued. Now
it's the Chicoms under that flat faced gook bastard Jiping ping pong
who are doing it and I guarantee they will get pasted for doing it and
Jipong ping ding dong will get hung as a war criminal. Good. I hope
the telecast it live on TV.

problem is, with china we're treading on the tail of a tiger lol, and
who
knows when one of those things will finally lose its temper and take a
swipe at what's been irritating it for so long huh...

a war with china is just not viable, no one could possibly win a war of
that magnitude, everyone would lose! lose everything! so it's not an
option, that is unless one is totally insane and/or suicidal hah!

It probably won't go nuclear so it will be worth fighting.

### - oh ho ho! (i have to laugh heh) because going nuclear is
'inevitable' if/when either side thinks they're going to lose a more >conventional war? no one will be prepared to give in and thus things will >unavoidably escalate to that level! that even if we strike first we wont >possibly escape the massive retaliation that will immediately follow! and >because we've all got enough weapons, each, to flatten the entire world
many times over?

Nonsense. It is highly unlikely that major powers will make nuclear
war against each other. They only full well know the consequences for themselves - M.A.D.

It's more likely that India/Pak or NK/SK or Iran/Israel will launch a
few nukes if threates become existential. That won't destroy our
civilisation but it will put a dent in it.

Your logic is a little bit faulty. Because they exist doesn't mean
they will be used. They have been around now for 75 years and haven't
been used since the end of WW2. They keep the balance.

"Mutually Assured Destruction" (MAD) was the only thing (the only >realisation) that stopped the US & russia destroying each other no? so do
ya really think it's any different now with china??

China has only about 300 nukes. Transit time for a SLBM from an Ohio
class boomer near Guam is only a few minutes, not enough time to
launch. In other words, the Yanks could take out practically every
one of those weapons before they could be launched.

Then China would be at the Americans' mercy ready to be occupied by
Japan and the US.

with all the resources running out we actually need to learn to share?

[continued in next message]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

[continued from previous message]

magnates of the British industrial revolution.

### - as i say: modern forms only of the same old same old, the
left-wing
only originally coming into existence in defense of the lower working
class by bargaining/demanding better working conditions and better pay +
pensions etc etc... their roots first appearing with the Luddites who
smashed the very machines that threatened to replace their jobs, to the
point that negotiations then ensued with those owners via an
increasingly
organised group of those workers we now call the left-wing, only things
like unions being able to put pressure on those owners for better
conditions etc...

But communalism and capitalism aren't that old. Aristocracy is old
which was rendered obsolete by the industrial revolution. Then, as a consequence, the rights of those whose labour powered the industrial revolution were protected by communal action - strikes, collective bargaining, etc - which was the original form of communism. It's a
modern phenomenon engendered by technological advancement.

### - the divine right of kings was replaced by the divine right of human wealth & power heh, that in killing-off the kings they effectively killed
god and any morality that went along with an overall divine power, no
morality giving rise to the reign of the powerful who do whatever they
like (because they can) and then call it democracy?? riiiight... ;)

On second thought, Trump is nothing like Hitler. He doesn't kill with
impunity like Putin, for instance.

### - so sending out a death squad to kill iran's general soleimani
wasn't
a clear example of that then? and/or the previous domestic shootings of
martin luthor king, malcomb x plus a whole host of others too by
previous
presidents?

Well Obama did that with bin Laden and had him killed. And why not?
Both these fuckers were enemies of innocent people just going about
their day to day. Let these fuckers fight an army of volunteers, a professional army, and then the playing field is level. Nope, they
went after civvies like you and me, and paid the price.

### - the mujahideen were forces created and funded by the US to fight the russians in afghanistan, who where later then branded as terrorists when
the US welshed on the deal they had with them, enter bin laden who came to represent them and who was demonised in his turn when they started
fighting back supported by binny's own personal wealth, this not being the first time the US has dumped it's own agents and turned against them,
sadam hussain being another case in point...

I didn't realise that MLK was killed by government order, nor MX nor
anyone else actually including JFK. Do you have evidence of any of
this?

### - who else killed mlk if not the government?? as leader of the growing civil rights movement mlk was preferred by johnson to mx (i.e., mlk
preached we could all live in peace together, something the government
didn't actually want anymore then than they want it today, whereas mx was
far more militant and just said kill the white fuckers lol, so mlk had to
die in order to halt that movement, when mx changed his racist tune (which suited the whites seeking to keep everyone segregated) to 'all men are brothers' he too was killed, see? the last thing they wanted, just like
white south africa, was the intermingling of the species lol, to the point
it's been hinted at that the government actually helped fund mx, that is
until he changed his tune to being more akin to mlk...

C'mon slider, we aren't in an OO7 world here, factually western
governments and others (Israel etc) kill but generally only enemies
who deserve killing for terrorist acts. Tell me about any others,
killing of civilians for instance. Any proof?

### - the mujahideen were friends of the US then terrorists, ditto sadam hussain...

now protesting blacks in the US are being labeled 'domestic terrorists'
too?

that's how it works thang! has always worked!

the far right are always the same thang, their base-agenda doesn't
change
at all, they have only the same one aim/goal all along: to dominate the
lower 80% because that's traditionally what those 1% have always done...
perforce they resent the left that seeks to thwart them, to negotiate
for
better conditions and pay etc...

Well I abhor communism it stifles freedom of action and I am a dyed in
the wool libertarian. But that's just personal, many don't agree. Conservatives are generally older people like us who have become
scared of change. Conservatism is a fear of change and wanting to
stay the same. I've become conservative over the decades because I
have assets and so on and don't want them destroyed or taken and redistributed. I used to be like you, a liberal/leftie/anarchist, but
it simply doesn't work at large scales. It's a pipe dream

### - haha am not a liberal/leftie/anarchist lol, if anything am only a historical observer...

am actually 'a-political' in that sense, but that doesn't stop me from seeing/recording how it's all been going down for the last few
centuries... (now you're demonising me as well lol)

You sound cynical but this really is a west/east clash, except it's
not the Russkies we should be concerned about.

### - agreed, the ruskies actually just wanna be left alone to adopt a >>>> neutral position, and because, again, it's us who're pressuring them
rather than the other way around...

The Russians are impoverished even by ChiCom standards. You and I
would be long dead if we lived in Russia:

"Men in Russia have an average life expectancy of just 60 years. Life
expectancy for Russian men is well below that of western European
countries like Germany, where men have an average life span of 77
years, according to World Health Organization figures."

edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/russia.health

### - the 'problem' the west has with russia is only that of their
being a
competing ideology, ditto china & islam... i.e., they wont be converted
to
'our' way of doing things and insist on having their own ways of doing
things, and view us in the west as being fundamentally corrupt &
corrupting to their own aims & goals...

Nope Russia has a problem with the US because the US along with Ronald
Reagan destroyed their entire system by making it unsustainable. Old
KGB types like Putin will never ever forgive the US for that. Russia,
under Putin and his type, will always be a blood enemy of the US for
its defeat and destruction of communism in the country which first
enacted that system.

### - there were problems with russia 'long' before the fall of the soviet union

Most Russians no longer have that ideology and they dress in jeans and
T's and sneakers and listen to western music and so on just like us.
It's Putin and his lack of forgiveness which drives the nation however
and makes them our enemy.

Of course they think we are corrupt. We won! Winners are grinners.
Fuck them lol.

### - i don't think you're really seeing the whole picture of history, or
how things even got to that stage? (read 'The Rebel' i gave you, it's all
in there ya know, you'll have an entirely different pov on history after that...)

perforce burning all the literature to the contrary comes next, >>>>>>>> and
then
where will we be??

What? Hey, I'm staying here so far in the hope that we can engage >>>>>>> in
normal discourse where one side listens to the other and agrees or >>>>>>> disagrees based on evidence.

You too?

### - yes, of course, and am just saying/continuing (rather
cynically
i
suppose) that what usually comes next is then the destruction of
anything
(i.e., any literature) that doesn't support the right-wing ethos... >>>>>> that
according to trumpy 'everyone' on the left is now a communist
extremist
who wants to destroy their country etc etc bs... an example of this >>>>>> being
trumpy's recent attempt at the re-writing of black history as part >>>>>> of
his
'maga' campaign, which he says is a left-wing plot to undermine
american
history and greatness etc...

No, that's what's happening in China. There's a lot of secrecy and
so
on in the West but nothing compared to the ChiComs.

### - make no mistake; trumpy is far-right! and part of his agenda is
thus
to destroy the left wing altogether by hook or by crook! you can see
this
in everything he does...

Agreed.

### - so then it's really only the same old problem all along of the
'owners' having to fight-off the organised workers who're demanding
better
conditions and fairer pay etc etc; the sheriff of nottingham wants to
raise the taxes and robin hood is doing things in the background to
subvert that aim by stealing from the rich to give back to the poor
kinda
thing (sounds simplistic, but that's what it's basically been about all
along, and still is all about, these days the sheriff's got computers
now
is all...)

Trump sounds like Adolf. Both found enemies in the left (for Hitler, >>>>> it was the bolsheviks) and both stirred the pot with racial hatred - >>>>> for Hitler, the Jews, for Trump, the blacks and hispanics (those
"shithole" coutries as he called them in his inimitable style).

### - that's exactly what am talking about... both of them had/have
designs on world domination and that's what ultimately causes all the
trouble and wars...

Trump isn't concerned with global dominion. More concerned with
withdrawing the US from the world.

### - you said it yourself when you referred to him as "the leader of
the
free world"?

I was just parroting what POTUS is known for in the West. And we are
free - free to topple unpopular governments for instance, which has
happened in your country, mine, Germany, France and soon in the US.
Try that shit in Russia or China or North Korea and see what
happens...

Or in Belorussia...

### - no, you got it right the first time, the US is currently the seat of power of western democracy, it used to be the british empire who were the
seat of power in their rush to empire and now that same seat of power has
moved to the US is all, nada's actually changed in terms of policy! empire
now just means the global domination of one (and only one) ideology over
all others! russia & china & islam standing in the way of that and so
that's why they're being systematically dismantled! the west is working to remove the competition!

rightly or wrongly that's how they see themselves anyway... the
'problem'
being that democracy so-called is actually a system of slavery and not
freedom at all? ("slave camps under the flag of freedom" according to
albert camus for example) it being impossible to 'enforce' freedom upon
people from without anyway, without necessarily sowing the seeds of yet
another future rebellion later on?

Are you serious? I've never been hamstringed by my government and I
smoke dope, made money, spend it where and on what I like, used to
have loud parties and make a nuisance of myself, I was FREE and only
our system permits that. As I said, try all that in China or Russia
and see what happens.

### - very serious! ;)

problem is you appear to lack the correct historical references (or are
just ignoring them then) that reveals the bigger picture, i smoke dope too
but it's still actually illegal here? (have been busted several times and
fined for it too lol)

i.e., you were never actually 'free' thang, like any slave you were only
free to conform and pay your taxes else it's called stealing lol, be a
'good' slave though and you can have certain privileges is all, but that's
not freedom per se...

'extremism' is thus the real enemy in that sense! and is to be avoided >>>> at
all costs! draw back from that some though and that's precisely where
dialogue & negotiation begins: the only thing that can possibly save
the
world!

Agreed.

### - am glad you agree, because the 'left' is where all the
intelligence
is and/or ultimately derives from; art, literature, poetry, the deep
thinkers and innovators etc etc, all coming expressly from the left from
people who know (who have some idea then) what 'freedom' means because
they come from a oppressed class where they feel anything 'but' free?

I don't agree with that at all. The concept of left/communism/bolshevism/communalism/collective bargaining etc etc
has only been around for a bit over a century but we came down from
the trees a million years ago and we have had civilisation for at
least 10K years now - where was all the intelligence in Greece and in
Rome and in Egypt 5K years ago, the intelligence which wrote the Eddas
and the Mahabarata, the Bhavagadgita, the early scriptures etc etc -
there was no left wing then, civlisation was republics, empires,
emperors, kings, war leaders and the like. Yet there was
intelligence, art, poetry, innovation a plenty.

You need to free up your thinking. I think all the time and if I'm
wrong about something, then I change my opinion. It's healthy to be
willing to change and admit you are wrong from time to time.

### - there's just too much to explain/discuss here in a couple of
sentences, or even a dozen paragraphs...

read 'The rebel' (that's why i gave it to ya) and then maybe some of the
things am saying will make more sense...

back in the dark ages lol :)))

Nothing to do with this traitor. Can't see the connection.

### - my fault perhaps for jumping to blaming trumpy by comparing
him
to
stalin and what stalin then did to do everything he could to
'remain'
in
power... and because this is what the right-wing always does to
eliminate
the competition by demonising them... that they prolly knew about
this
nano-dude all along but now's a good time to make an example of him >>>>>> as
part of the anti-chinese build-up: we've caught one! (a traitor) and >>>>>> there'll be more to follow! now who's next??

that there are very clear parallels between what stalin did to
remain
in
power and what thumpy's now doing to remain in power, this
scientist-dude
being held-up as a graphic example of what's going on right under
our
moses and that has to be eliminated in order to make america great >>>>>> again
etc etc...

i mean, i dunno who this scientist dude really is and could actually >>>>>> care
less, it just seems very timely with the current anti-chinese
climate
he's
trying to stir up is all, everyone systematically being forced to
assert
their political intentions when scientists are supposed to be
objectively
A-political... in which case i don't trust it! (nano-dude may or may >>>>>> not
actually be a traitor, but once you start using terms 'like' traitor >>>>>> it's
a slippery-slope down back into the dark ages again... and that's
why
i
don't trust it...)

[continued in next message]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

[continued from previous message]

have assets and so on and don't want them destroyed or taken and
redistributed. I used to be like you, a liberal/leftie/anarchist, but
it simply doesn't work at large scales. It's a pipe dream

You sound cynical but this really is a west/east clash, except it's
not the Russkies we should be concerned about.

### - agreed, the ruskies actually just wanna be left alone to adopt a
neutral position, and because, again, it's us who're pressuring them
rather than the other way around...

The Russians are impoverished even by ChiCom standards. You and I
would be long dead if we lived in Russia:

"Men in Russia have an average life expectancy of just 60 years. Life
expectancy for Russian men is well below that of western European
countries like Germany, where men have an average life span of 77
years, according to World Health Organization figures."

edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/russia.health

### - the 'problem' the west has with russia is only that of their being a >competing ideology, ditto china & islam... i.e., they wont be converted to >'our' way of doing things and insist on having their own ways of doing >things, and view us in the west as being fundamentally corrupt &
corrupting to their own aims & goals...

Nope Russia has a problem with the US because the US along with Ronald
Reagan destroyed their entire system by making it unsustainable. Old
KGB types like Putin will never ever forgive the US for that. Russia,
under Putin and his type, will always be a blood enemy of the US for
its defeat and destruction of communism in the country which first
enacted that system.

Most Russians no longer have that ideology and they dress in jeans and
T's and sneakers and listen to western music and so on just like us.
It's Putin and his lack of forgiveness which drives the nation however
and makes them our enemy.

Of course they think we are corrupt. We won! Winners are grinners.
Fuck them lol.

perforce burning all the literature to the contrary comes next, and >>>>>>> then
where will we be??

What? Hey, I'm staying here so far in the hope that we can engage in >>>>>> normal discourse where one side listens to the other and agrees or >>>>>> disagrees based on evidence.

You too?

### - yes, of course, and am just saying/continuing (rather cynically >>>>> i
suppose) that what usually comes next is then the destruction of
anything
(i.e., any literature) that doesn't support the right-wing ethos...
that
according to trumpy 'everyone' on the left is now a communist
extremist
who wants to destroy their country etc etc bs... an example of this
being
trumpy's recent attempt at the re-writing of black history as part of >>>>> his
'maga' campaign, which he says is a left-wing plot to undermine
american
history and greatness etc...

No, that's what's happening in China. There's a lot of secrecy and so >>>> on in the West but nothing compared to the ChiComs.

### - make no mistake; trumpy is far-right! and part of his agenda is
thus
to destroy the left wing altogether by hook or by crook! you can see
this
in everything he does...

Agreed.

### - so then it's really only the same old problem all along of the
'owners' having to fight-off the organised workers who're demanding better >conditions and fairer pay etc etc; the sheriff of nottingham wants to
raise the taxes and robin hood is doing things in the background to
subvert that aim by stealing from the rich to give back to the poor kinda >thing (sounds simplistic, but that's what it's basically been about all >along, and still is all about, these days the sheriff's got computers now
is all...)

Trump sounds like Adolf. Both found enemies in the left (for Hitler,
it was the bolsheviks) and both stirred the pot with racial hatred -
for Hitler, the Jews, for Trump, the blacks and hispanics (those
"shithole" coutries as he called them in his inimitable style).

### - that's exactly what am talking about... both of them had/have
designs on world domination and that's what ultimately causes all the
trouble and wars...

Trump isn't concerned with global dominion. More concerned with
withdrawing the US from the world.

### - you said it yourself when you referred to him as "the leader of the >free world"?

I was just parroting what POTUS is known for in the West. And we are
free - free to topple unpopular governments for instance, which has
happened in your country, mine, Germany, France and soon in the US.
Try that shit in Russia or China or North Korea and see what
happens...

Or in Belorussia...

rightly or wrongly that's how they see themselves anyway... the 'problem' >being that democracy so-called is actually a system of slavery and not >freedom at all? ("slave camps under the flag of freedom" according to
albert camus for example) it being impossible to 'enforce' freedom upon >people from without anyway, without necessarily sowing the seeds of yet >another future rebellion later on?

Are you serious? I've never been hamstringed by my government and I
smoke dope, made money, spend it where and on what I like, used to
have loud parties and make a nuisance of myself, I was FREE and only
our system permits that. As I said, try all that in China or Russia
and see what happens.

'extremism' is thus the real enemy in that sense! and is to be avoided
at
all costs! draw back from that some though and that's precisely where
dialogue & negotiation begins: the only thing that can possibly save the >>> world!

Agreed.

### - am glad you agree, because the 'left' is where all the intelligence
is and/or ultimately derives from; art, literature, poetry, the deep
thinkers and innovators etc etc, all coming expressly from the left from >people who know (who have some idea then) what 'freedom' means because
they come from a oppressed class where they feel anything 'but' free?

I don't agree with that at all. The concept of left/communism/bolshevism/communalism/collective bargaining etc etc
has only been around for a bit over a century but we came down from
the trees a million years ago and we have had civilisation for at
least 10K years now - where was all the intelligence in Greece and in
Rome and in Egypt 5K years ago, the intelligence which wrote the Eddas
and the Mahabarata, the Bhavagadgita, the early scriptures etc etc -
there was no left wing then, civlisation was republics, empires,
emperors, kings, war leaders and the like. Yet there was
intelligence, art, poetry, innovation a plenty.

You need to free up your thinking. I think all the time and if I'm
wrong about something, then I change my opinion. It's healthy to be
willing to change and admit you are wrong from time to time.

back in the dark ages lol :)))

Nothing to do with this traitor. Can't see the connection.

### - my fault perhaps for jumping to blaming trumpy by comparing him >>>>> to
stalin and what stalin then did to do everything he could to 'remain' >>>>> in
power... and because this is what the right-wing always does to
eliminate
the competition by demonising them... that they prolly knew about this >>>>> nano-dude all along but now's a good time to make an example of him as >>>>> part of the anti-chinese build-up: we've caught one! (a traitor) and >>>>> there'll be more to follow! now who's next??

that there are very clear parallels between what stalin did to remain >>>>> in
power and what thumpy's now doing to remain in power, this
scientist-dude
being held-up as a graphic example of what's going on right under our >>>>> moses and that has to be eliminated in order to make america great
again
etc etc...

i mean, i dunno who this scientist dude really is and could actually >>>>> care
less, it just seems very timely with the current anti-chinese climate >>>>> he's
trying to stir up is all, everyone systematically being forced to
assert
their political intentions when scientists are supposed to be
objectively
A-political... in which case i don't trust it! (nano-dude may or may >>>>> not
actually be a traitor, but once you start using terms 'like' traitor >>>>> it's
a slippery-slope down back into the dark ages again... and that's why >>>>> i
don't trust it...)

China has one big achilles heel. It is decades behind the US in
design and manufacture of very sophisticated silicon chiips and they
depend on imports from the US, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan who are
all more successful in this area.

Now the US is starting to strangle the ChiCom ability to purchase
these chips. That is a very big weakness indeed.

### - agreed, but they're catching up real fast! and that's a big-big
problem for the west...

Not in chips. They don't even have decent foundries. They are
decades behind and war is close.

### - oh they're modern enough to lob quite a few fancy nukes in our >direction should the need ever arise, china isn't some tin-pot wannabe >nuclear nation like north korea or iran ya know? i mean, long gone are the >days when we british could just bombard them with impunity into submission
from the sea hah! if we tried that shit today there'd be a very hefty
price to pay in terms of retaliation, just one well-aimed missile with >multiple warheads would flatten the uk forever!

Even the NK can make nukes, they have been around since 1945. That
doesn't take modern chip technology at all even in ICBM's because
inertial guided missiles have been around for a long time before
modern chip foundries and assoc tech. The Chinese are nowhere near
the Yanks or the Taiwanese or the Japs or South Koreans in chip tech,
they are decades behind. This is why the US export controls are
crippling Huawai.

And I don't think the Chicoms have MIRV technology - perhaps it's only
one warhead per rocket.

i mean, how many 'trillions' of american debt does china currently hold
for example? lol

Not a problem for the Yanks who can just print more money and degrade
the value of those holdings.

### - true... but would also devalue the dollar for themselves in the
process too, to the point that $1000 prolly wouldn't even buy ya a single >loaf of bread! deflation! (iow: you can only go so far with that shit
before your own economy collapses no?)

No that's not how it works. By devaluing the $ exports increase and
wealth increases. This counteracts any tendency towards inflation. A purposeful increase in money supply can put China down but will not be
seen by the markets to be overly damaging to the US economy. It is a
big weapon which has not yet been wielded by the Yanks but has in fact
been used by China.

in another 30 or 50 years they'll just call in the debt and own america!

The ChiCOms don't have the luxury of time.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/china-forces-on-high-alert-after-u-s-warship-sails-near-taiwan

### - and thus they're preparing for an assault upon them by claiming
these important + strategic waterways in a counter-attempt to even the
score that 'we' have un-evened by encroaching upon them!

Nope, the Chinese are bullies who started the pandemic and they need
to be taken down a few sizes. In the coming war the US and its allies
will prevail. Nukes will not be used for the obvious reason (that the
Chinese nation will become a radioactive wasteland for the next 100000
years). China will sue for peace but there is a danger that they will
not accept the peace conditions like Germany after WW1 and futher
conflagration will take place down track.

But there will be war.

thus war with them is inevitable unless the west can change its world
domination agenda to something else and, perhaps, persuade china to do
something similar? (why can't we all just get along?? hah!)

else they're quite content to just keep growing and growing while
western
economies shrink away, they don't 'need' to start a war except in
defense
of their sovereign rights!

They have already started the war. Soon, the US will finish it.

### - i don't agree that they started it, any more than they started a war >with the british that time, rather it's completely the other way around as
we (the west) encroach upon them by sending warships to sail past them? >they've seen that shit before lol only this time they're better prepared
to defend themselves! we're actively provoking them! and have, for
example, already initiated a trade war with them! (trade wars have always >been a prelude to war no? well we've started it then no?)

The two circumstances are totally different. Now the Chinese are
trying to close or control shipping lanes which service half the
world. The US did that to Japan and WW2 in the Pacific ensued. Now
it's the Chicoms under that flat faced gook bastard Jiping ping pong
who are doing it and I guarantee they will get pasted for doing it and
Jipong ping ding dong will get hung as a war criminal. Good. I hope
the telecast it live on TV.

problem is, with china we're treading on the tail of a tiger lol, and
who
knows when one of those things will finally lose its temper and take a
swipe at what's been irritating it for so long huh...

a war with china is just not viable, no one could possibly win a war of
that magnitude, everyone would lose! lose everything! so it's not an
option, that is unless one is totally insane and/or suicidal hah!

It probably won't go nuclear so it will be worth fighting.

### - oh ho ho! (i have to laugh heh) because going nuclear is
'inevitable' if/when either side thinks they're going to lose a more >conventional war? no one will be prepared to give in and thus things will >unavoidably escalate to that level! that even if we strike first we wont >possibly escape the massive retaliation that will immediately follow! and >because we've all got enough weapons, each, to flatten the entire world
many times over?

Nonsense. It is highly unlikely that major powers will make nuclear
war against each other. They only full well know the consequences for themselves - M.A.D.

It's more likely that India/Pak or NK/SK or Iran/Israel will launch a
few nukes if threates become existential. That won't destroy our
civilisation but it will put a dent in it.

Your logic is a little bit faulty. Because they exist doesn't mean
they will be used. They have been around now for 75 years and haven't
been used since the end of WW2. They keep the balance.

"Mutually Assured Destruction" (MAD) was the only thing (the only >realisation) that stopped the US & russia destroying each other no? so do
ya really think it's any different now with china??

China has only about 300 nukes. Transit time for a SLBM from an Ohio
class boomer near Guam is only a few minutes, not enough time to
launch. In other words, the Yanks could take out practically every
one of those weapons before they could be launched.

Then China would be at the Americans' mercy ready to be occupied by
Japan and the US.

with all the resources running out we actually need to learn to share?

[continued in next message]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

[continued from previous message]

### - as i say: modern forms only of the same old same old, the
left-wing
only originally coming into existence in defense of the lower working
class by bargaining/demanding better working conditions and better pay +
pensions etc etc... their roots first appearing with the Luddites who
smashed the very machines that threatened to replace their jobs, to the
point that negotiations then ensued with those owners via an
increasingly
organised group of those workers we now call the left-wing, only things
like unions being able to put pressure on those owners for better
conditions etc...

But communalism and capitalism aren't that old. Aristocracy is old
which was rendered obsolete by the industrial revolution. Then, as a consequence, the rights of those whose labour powered the industrial revolution were protected by communal action - strikes, collective bargaining, etc - which was the original form of communism. It's a
modern phenomenon engendered by technological advancement.

### - the divine right of kings was replaced by the divine right of human wealth & power heh, that in killing-off the kings they effectively killed
god and any morality that went along with an overall divine power, no
morality giving rise to the reign of the powerful who do whatever they
like (because they can) and then call it democracy?? riiiight... ;)

On second thought, Trump is nothing like Hitler. He doesn't kill with
impunity like Putin, for instance.

### - so sending out a death squad to kill iran's general soleimani
wasn't
a clear example of that then? and/or the previous domestic shootings of
martin luthor king, malcomb x plus a whole host of others too by
previous
presidents?

Well Obama did that with bin Laden and had him killed. And why not?
Both these fuckers were enemies of innocent people just going about
their day to day. Let these fuckers fight an army of volunteers, a professional army, and then the playing field is level. Nope, they
went after civvies like you and me, and paid the price.

### - the mujahideen were forces created and funded by the US to fight the russians in afghanistan, who where later then branded as terrorists when
the US welshed on the deal they had with them, enter bin laden who came to represent them and who was demonised in his turn when they started
fighting back supported by binny's own personal wealth, this not being the first time the US has dumped it's own agents and turned against them,
sadam hussain being another case in point...

I didn't realise that MLK was killed by government order, nor MX nor
anyone else actually including JFK. Do you have evidence of any of
this?

### - who else killed mlk if not the government?? as leader of the growing civil rights movement mlk was preferred by johnson to mx (i.e., mlk
preached we could all live in peace together, something the government
didn't actually want anymore then than they want it today, whereas mx was
far more militant and just said kill the white fuckers lol, so mlk had to
die in order to halt that movement, when mx changed his racist tune (which suited the whites seeking to keep everyone segregated) to 'all men are brothers' he too was killed, see? the last thing they wanted, just like
white south africa, was the intermingling of the species lol, to the point
it's been hinted at that the government actually helped fund mx, that is
until he changed his tune to being more akin to mlk...

C'mon slider, we aren't in an OO7 world here, factually western
governments and others (Israel etc) kill but generally only enemies
who deserve killing for terrorist acts. Tell me about any others,
killing of civilians for instance. Any proof?

### - the mujahideen were friends of the US then terrorists, ditto sadam hussain...

now protesting blacks in the US are being labeled 'domestic terrorists'
too?

that's how it works thang! has always worked!

the far right are always the same thang, their base-agenda doesn't
change
at all, they have only the same one aim/goal all along: to dominate the
lower 80% because that's traditionally what those 1% have always done...
perforce they resent the left that seeks to thwart them, to negotiate
for
better conditions and pay etc...

Well I abhor communism it stifles freedom of action and I am a dyed in
the wool libertarian. But that's just personal, many don't agree. Conservatives are generally older people like us who have become
scared of change. Conservatism is a fear of change and wanting to
stay the same. I've become conservative over the decades because I
have assets and so on and don't want them destroyed or taken and redistributed. I used to be like you, a liberal/leftie/anarchist, but
it simply doesn't work at large scales. It's a pipe dream

### - haha am not a liberal/leftie/anarchist lol, if anything am only a historical observer...

am actually 'a-political' in that sense, but that doesn't stop me from seeing/recording how it's all been going down for the last few
centuries... (now you're demonising me as well lol)

You sound cynical but this really is a west/east clash, except it's
not the Russkies we should be concerned about.

### - agreed, the ruskies actually just wanna be left alone to adopt a >>>> neutral position, and because, again, it's us who're pressuring them
rather than the other way around...

The Russians are impoverished even by ChiCom standards. You and I
would be long dead if we lived in Russia:

"Men in Russia have an average life expectancy of just 60 years. Life
expectancy for Russian men is well below that of western European
countries like Germany, where men have an average life span of 77
years, according to World Health Organization figures."

edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/russia.health

### - the 'problem' the west has with russia is only that of their
being a
competing ideology, ditto china & islam... i.e., they wont be converted
to
'our' way of doing things and insist on having their own ways of doing
things, and view us in the west as being fundamentally corrupt &
corrupting to their own aims & goals...

Nope Russia has a problem with the US because the US along with Ronald
Reagan destroyed their entire system by making it unsustainable. Old
KGB types like Putin will never ever forgive the US for that. Russia,
under Putin and his type, will always be a blood enemy of the US for
its defeat and destruction of communism in the country which first
enacted that system.

### - there were problems with russia 'long' before the fall of the soviet union

Most Russians no longer have that ideology and they dress in jeans and
T's and sneakers and listen to western music and so on just like us.
It's Putin and his lack of forgiveness which drives the nation however
and makes them our enemy.

Of course they think we are corrupt. We won! Winners are grinners.
Fuck them lol.

### - i don't think you're really seeing the whole picture of history, or
how things even got to that stage? (read 'The Rebel' i gave you, it's all
in there ya know, you'll have an entirely different pov on history after that...)

perforce burning all the literature to the contrary comes next, >>>>>>>> and
then
where will we be??

What? Hey, I'm staying here so far in the hope that we can engage >>>>>>> in
normal discourse where one side listens to the other and agrees or >>>>>>> disagrees based on evidence.

You too?

### - yes, of course, and am just saying/continuing (rather
cynically
i
suppose) that what usually comes next is then the destruction of
anything
(i.e., any literature) that doesn't support the right-wing ethos... >>>>>> that
according to trumpy 'everyone' on the left is now a communist
extremist
who wants to destroy their country etc etc bs... an example of this >>>>>> being
trumpy's recent attempt at the re-writing of black history as part >>>>>> of
his
'maga' campaign, which he says is a left-wing plot to undermine
american
history and greatness etc...

No, that's what's happening in China. There's a lot of secrecy and
so
on in the West but nothing compared to the ChiComs.

### - make no mistake; trumpy is far-right! and part of his agenda is
thus
to destroy the left wing altogether by hook or by crook! you can see
this
in everything he does...

Agreed.

### - so then it's really only the same old problem all along of the
'owners' having to fight-off the organised workers who're demanding
better
conditions and fairer pay etc etc; the sheriff of nottingham wants to
raise the taxes and robin hood is doing things in the background to
subvert that aim by stealing from the rich to give back to the poor
kinda
thing (sounds simplistic, but that's what it's basically been about all
along, and still is all about, these days the sheriff's got computers
now
is all...)

Trump sounds like Adolf. Both found enemies in the left (for Hitler, >>>>> it was the bolsheviks) and both stirred the pot with racial hatred - >>>>> for Hitler, the Jews, for Trump, the blacks and hispanics (those
"shithole" coutries as he called them in his inimitable style).

### - that's exactly what am talking about... both of them had/have
designs on world domination and that's what ultimately causes all the
trouble and wars...

Trump isn't concerned with global dominion. More concerned with
withdrawing the US from the world.

### - you said it yourself when you referred to him as "the leader of
the
free world"?

I was just parroting what POTUS is known for in the West. And we are
free - free to topple unpopular governments for instance, which has
happened in your country, mine, Germany, France and soon in the US.
Try that shit in Russia or China or North Korea and see what
happens...

Or in Belorussia...

### - no, you got it right the first time, the US is currently the seat of power of western democracy, it used to be the british empire who were the
seat of power in their rush to empire and now that same seat of power has
moved to the US is all, nada's actually changed in terms of policy! empire
now just means the global domination of one (and only one) ideology over
all others! russia & china & islam standing in the way of that and so
that's why they're being systematically dismantled! the west is working to remove the competition!

rightly or wrongly that's how they see themselves anyway... the
'problem'
being that democracy so-called is actually a system of slavery and not
freedom at all? ("slave camps under the flag of freedom" according to
albert camus for example) it being impossible to 'enforce' freedom upon
people from without anyway, without necessarily sowing the seeds of yet
another future rebellion later on?

Are you serious? I've never been hamstringed by my government and I
smoke dope, made money, spend it where and on what I like, used to
have loud parties and make a nuisance of myself, I was FREE and only
our system permits that. As I said, try all that in China or Russia
and see what happens.

### - very serious! ;)

problem is you appear to lack the correct historical references (or are
just ignoring them then) that reveals the bigger picture, i smoke dope too
but it's still actually illegal here? (have been busted several times and
fined for it too lol)

i.e., you were never actually 'free' thang, like any slave you were only
free to conform and pay your taxes else it's called stealing lol, be a
'good' slave though and you can have certain privileges is all, but that's
not freedom per se...

'extremism' is thus the real enemy in that sense! and is to be avoided >>>> at
all costs! draw back from that some though and that's precisely where
dialogue & negotiation begins: the only thing that can possibly save
the
world!

Agreed.

### - am glad you agree, because the 'left' is where all the
intelligence
is and/or ultimately derives from; art, literature, poetry, the deep
thinkers and innovators etc etc, all coming expressly from the left from
people who know (who have some idea then) what 'freedom' means because
they come from a oppressed class where they feel anything 'but' free?

I don't agree with that at all. The concept of left/communism/bolshevism/communalism/collective bargaining etc etc
has only been around for a bit over a century but we came down from
the trees a million years ago and we have had civilisation for at
least 10K years now - where was all the intelligence in Greece and in
Rome and in Egypt 5K years ago, the intelligence which wrote the Eddas
and the Mahabarata, the Bhavagadgita, the early scriptures etc etc -
there was no left wing then, civlisation was republics, empires,
emperors, kings, war leaders and the like. Yet there was
intelligence, art, poetry, innovation a plenty.

You need to free up your thinking. I think all the time and if I'm
wrong about something, then I change my opinion. It's healthy to be
willing to change and admit you are wrong from time to time.

### - there's just too much to explain/discuss here in a couple of
sentences, or even a dozen paragraphs...

read 'The rebel' (that's why i gave it to ya) and then maybe some of the
things am saying will make more sense...

back in the dark ages lol :)))

Nothing to do with this traitor. Can't see the connection.

### - my fault perhaps for jumping to blaming trumpy by comparing
him
to
stalin and what stalin then did to do everything he could to
'remain'
in
power... and because this is what the right-wing always does to
eliminate
the competition by demonising them... that they prolly knew about
this
nano-dude all along but now's a good time to make an example of him >>>>>> as
part of the anti-chinese build-up: we've caught one! (a traitor) and >>>>>> there'll be more to follow! now who's next??

that there are very clear parallels between what stalin did to
remain
in
power and what thumpy's now doing to remain in power, this
scientist-dude
being held-up as a graphic example of what's going on right under
our
moses and that has to be eliminated in order to make america great >>>>>> again
etc etc...

i mean, i dunno who this scientist dude really is and could actually >>>>>> care
less, it just seems very timely with the current anti-chinese
climate
he's
trying to stir up is all, everyone systematically being forced to
assert
their political intentions when scientists are supposed to be
objectively
A-political... in which case i don't trust it! (nano-dude may or may >>>>>> not
actually be a traitor, but once you start using terms 'like' traitor >>>>>> it's
a slippery-slope down back into the dark ages again... and that's
why
i
don't trust it...)

[continued in next message]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)